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Train! The pistol is not their primary weapon. Lethality by Caliber: Whats the Best Handgun Caliber For You? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ, http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1165386, http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=91, http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=34714, http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. The FBI Training Division reported in May 2014 that officers, on average, strike an adversary with only 20 percent to 30 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident. Take a look at the FBI stats on their testing of various pistol ammunition as well as other reputable studies. Walked closer and finished it with a 44 round between the eyes. Most of the ballistic testing I have seen comparing the penetration of various bullets and calibers would suggest that generally, a .45ACP and 9mm are both quite comparable as far as penetration is concerned. I just bought a S&W M&P 9 Shield. This was not a good CC gun so I traded it for a S&W 39-2 9mm. .45 ACP damage increased from 35-40-65 to 35-40-75, and minimum damage decreased from 60% to 50%. Then, theres the venerable .357 magnum, which, though smaller than the .44, comes roaring out of a barrel at speeds as high as 1600 FPS. Pistols are primarily used for close combat. I will never personally take a life if I have the chance to stop someone with a non lethal GSW. I find that there is a difference when using 9mm vs .45acp. I have a Glock19 and Glock23 chambered .40S&W and that is a great round to. WebSTI Tactical. It has something to do with occasions where they might carry concealed: Since last year, MARSOC has purchased and fielded 1,654 Glock 19s because Raiders needed a reliable secondary weapon that could be used for both a concealed carry profile and a low-visibility profile, and having one approved pistol for all special operators saves money, he said. IMHO, everyone of us is different in all ways from head to toe and mostly including the brain and fitting a handgun is different for all. If I remember my undergraduate physics, acceleration is defined as a change in velocity or a change in vector. Penetration of this length and the tissue, blood vessel and organ damage/destruction that follows is vital to circulatory collapse. SGT SmallwoodUSMC/LTC SmallwoodUSArmy retired. I have owned all of the above calibers plus.In S&W, Glock, Sig.CZ,Remington,Beretta.I have taken bob cats,coyotes Jack rabbits Badger with all. As someone just coming in your home or coming at you out of the blue. But its easy tell which one of you are the idiots, and those of us that actually know are trying to skate uphill teaching those that dont. SS and Homeland couldnt be to aly wrong!!! 45 stopping power! Any other manufacturers that have been notified that they are not going to be selected may be waiting for the DoD to make the official announcement. Wounding one enemy combatant to take three out of the fight (or at least two) was a good argument when we were facing civilized enemies such as the Germans in WW II. F=MA is not applicable. The larger a projectiles surface area, the greater its ability to transfer its energy to the target, instead of simply penetrating straight through. A little back ground, for almost 17 years that I carried a badge I carried a S&W 6 357 on a K frame as my service carry. .45 ACP Damage Body Shots Head Shots Sounds Firing (9mm) Firing (.45 ACP) Reloading Swapping To Rarity The Vector is a rare SMG that spawns mainly in Hatchet Cases in the Hydra Bunker and rarely in the Storm Bunker (10% chance). you should read TIFU my boss shot me reddit. However I agree with you about a .22 in the right place is more deadly than a 50 in the wrong place. Im no expert by the way but, I know that said air resistance on the nose of the bullet is NOT the predominate factor in any ballistics array. 3, both hemolymph ACP and AKP activities of P. clarkii were significantly decreased in the 30 and 50 mg/L groups compared to the control (P < 0.01).Similarly, PO activity also exhibited a significant reduction in the 30 mg/L group (P < 0.05) and the 50 mg/L group (P < 0.01), respectively.However, LZM activity showed a significant increase The FBI subsequently transitioned from revolvers to semi auto .40 caliber handguns with S&W .40 caliber bullets (a slightly shorter version of the 10mm round). Now for long engagements that are seen more in military ops and where fire suppression matters most I prefer 9mm. The Marine Corps Times is not published by the Marine Corps. also carry a lcp ruger 380 in a desantis pocket holster, covers the trigger guard real nice. We souped up the 38 special to produce it .The 10 Auto was dumb ed down to create the 40sw. Many years ago in auto racing, there was a saying regarding power. The germans used 9mm forever and they know their guns and war making. But its a good idea to carry a backup gun, and 2 spare mags that use the same ammo. Because bullet strikes to the torso will not immediately incapacitate an adversary and will not knock him to the ground, police officers need to use bullets that will neutralize an adversary as quickly as possible. Sudden, immediate and even instant death. It doesnt get more damaging that that. Remember, people dont have health bars. One single shot from nea I like it and am very comfortable pulling the trigger in as high stress of a situation as training allows. Real world combatants or keyboard commandos. (As my Sr. DI liked to say Two in the chest, and one in the head, then youre pretty damned sure that the bastard is dead.. I still carry a Ruger P-97 in 45 ACP caliber. You fire lots and lots of them through das maschinepistole and drown em in hot metal until they fall down and stop trying to kill you. How about a 147gr vs 155 gr comparison? But you have to shoot the gun your most accurate with and most comfortable with but if you dont seat the grip of any pistol in the web of the hand deeply all guns no matter what the caliber the gun will whip in the hand. Im sure many hunters can attest to the expansion of rifle bullets recovered from their game. Shorter barrels or longer range of initial impact will likewise decrease the possibility of expansion. Rookie year. Awareness of the injury (which often registers before pain), fear of death or greater injury, preconceived notions of what people do when theyre shot, as well as a simple desire to give up can all play a factor in psychologically incapacitating an attacker. What I have also seen on the range at 25 yards, while shooting steel silhouette time after time, was the 9mm would fail to kick the silhouette out of the track 7 out of 10 times without placing another shot. In reaching this conclusion, the FBI appeared to give too little weight to the tissue-crushing ability of the larger projectiles (.40 S& W; .45 Auto). For me, that is the Sig p226 9mm. So In a effort to accommodate all soldiers they switched to a milder recoiling 9mm round. The 9mm travels a great deal faster than the .45, with average muzzle velocity averaging between 1100-1200 FPS. Where aim for the middle of the whole body. I only want to pull the trigger 1-3 times. I meanwtf? I have never fired a .45 but rarely find the grips comfortable when I pick them up. the statement that a 9mm can carry more bullets. True. With the continuation of the pussification of America we see so many in posotions of power making decisions that follow the continuation of that thinkinhg. When dealing with a highly motivated target, milliseconds matter. 24 Round Magazine now only decreases reload time by 5% rather than 20% like before. arrow moving at what velocity.200 feet per second? As might be expected, larger-diameter bullets produce more devastating wound cavities and have a greater likelihood of striking vital organs. Reddit Q-do you think your mind will change about +P in a 45 cal? And I am surprised that this was not mentioned. Yes, I will agree that air resistance is constantly at work against a bullet, thereby slowing it down as it travels toward its intended target. Just one article about that here: http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2015/07/08/u-s-military-makes-monumental-shift-hollowpoint-pistol-ammunition/. Type of ammo, stopping power, number of shots, shot placement, kick back, does the gun fit your hand, and whether your cheap crappy gun jams on you these are all part of the equation. Not to mention costs savings in ammo which is a big deal both in the government and civilian perspective. Hollow point bullets are superior to round-nosed ones. Thats because the 7.62 is almost twice as massive as a .223. So modern ammo IS NOT the reason to switch back to the 9mm. JavaScript is disabled. 125 gr 9 mm PB fully jacketed bullet will generally penetrate both skins of a car door. But the US never officially ratified these protocols, and is not officially bound by them. Not to kill but enough to let us get to our guys or a firearms. There ya go compromise just carry both. That is closet weights I can readily come up with from factory offerings. I will address the people shooting the weapons in the military. The one thing Ive learned and seen over a lot of shooting is that a 9mm with FMJ bullets is mostly useless. Let me now take you back to 1987. Lexipol. Also my pattern emptying a clip rapidly against someone with a 9mm, Ill win that as well all day everyday! People like the OP of the TIFU have been shot right above their heart and lungs, with .223 and despite a nasty, nasty exit wound and the shot placement, walked it off. This pits apples to apples and will once and for all lay to rest all this ludicrous debate. The better the bullet and the shot placement of an officer, the more likely the officer will go home after a shooting. Of course shot placement is important. And the quicker the better when someones fanning a gun at you. This represents a cultural shift in America. The argument about effectiveness, capacity, reliability, stopping power, etc has been going on as long as I remember, ad nauseum. It seems to me to be better than the 9mm or the 45 acp Poor light and unplanned obstacles are common in real-life self-defense scenarios. Thats the secret. But by standing a flock of sheep in that position you can make a crowd of men. The 9mm leaves the muzzle on average at 1100 feet per second, NOT 1500. The answer is Yes. I have shot many different calibers. Then you missed. This is pretty interesting BTW https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/. What I have seen over the years on this debate, is that the majority, not all, prefer the 9mm due to its minimal recoil, magazine capacity and concealability. Gramins was using a 13+1 capacity Glock 21 in .45 ACP. Damage: 62. However, others say that the lowly .22 LR has the best stopping power, since it stays in the targets body and bounces around, shredding arteries and punching holes in internal organs. What do you Think of the S&W Shield? Why dont these experts just admit that they prefer Glocks and let it go at that? Shot placement vs. Through and through shots were the issue and the 9 just bounced of bones and exited. The 45 1911 did just that. The 45 deer had busted bones and bullets still within them. For the sake of interest, some indicators of the penetrative powers of various types of ammunition follow: Virtually all calibres (excepting air weapons) will penetrate the tread or side wall of a motor vehicle tyre. However, in a self-defense situation, the object isnt to kill your attacker; its to end their ability to cause you harm as quickly as possible. Other than for general interest, this type of test is of little use in the scientific examination of firearms-related situations. They are a secondary source at best. I however still allowed to carry a 45 and, will as long as I am able to. Copyright 2023 the article mentions that where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound. Okay, I have to give them props on this part of the statement because this is 100% correct. This includes victims shot by suspetcs and suspects shot by our officers. For the better part of a decade, working on the streets in 2 of the 4 most dangerous neighborhoods in these United States, (per semi-annual FBI Violent Crime statistics) shot distance and circumstance can NOT be accurately anticipated. Colt Defender 3" 45 ACP; Colt Gov't 70 Series; Kimber Warrior, w/ Rail; Kimber Warrior II; Kimber Super Carry Pro; Kimber Super Carry Ultra, 45 ACP, 3" Remington 1911 R1 Enhanced 5" 45 ACP; Ruger SR1911 Commander 4 Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless the is bone different muscle mass fat and other bonds in our bodies On the other hand, a .22 that you can carry easily and put into operation quickly and shoot accurately is probably not a good defense gun/round because to do enough damage requires brain-shot accuracy with each shot.