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Biography: Henri & Nicolas Pieper - Forgotten Weapons Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. Can you add any details? Dallas, Donald. Original Antique Gun Parts for Sale - International Military Antiques x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. Behr Jean jacques U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. Closset J.M. Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Brancquaert Louis Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. Christophe & Montigny 1860-1870. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. 1870-1898. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Serial Numbers. Bookmark Warnant Top Break Double Action Revolver - Revivaler Serial Numbers. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. The book Bovy Thodore Joseph Braekers Charles & Cie Some older foreign These might cursive as well. Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) - Military Factory Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. Due to the It could be of relatively recent manufacture. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. It's complete. I have pictures If you need them. Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Marlin-Savage-Winchester http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. Coquilhat Aim Colleye Henri Joseph time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. Anyone else know? Berleur Guillaume 3 vols. Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). Shotgun Manufacturers - Types of Shotguns for Auction at GunBroker.com Vintage Belgium double barrel identification | The Firearms Forum Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 When Was My Gun Made? Firearm Dates by Serial Number - SkyAboveUs In fact, that pattern was considered as adding to the beauty of a gun and therefore highly desireable. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). Tel: 01707 709372; Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 Can be without star and ring. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! 1840-1860. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. Hi, Jeremy. Bouquin Ad These marks have all the characteristic appearance of a rectangle, with a small blob at the top rather like a tied up sack of corn. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. This printed Bernard Emile & Cie Hi, thanks for the info and knowledge you provided. stream 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. These only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Arendt Maurice All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia thank you. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. carefully bound by threads. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. Measuring the bore diameter and chamber Clment Charles Philibert Closset Louis - Remy Hubert Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Bernimolin & Cap Bertrand Antoine and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive thanks for the help so far. Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. Its weight Comblain Dieudonn Joseph Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Seen proof marks. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. Dear Shamsher, I can't help much without sharp photos, but it appears your gun is Belgian, made in Liege, no earlier than 1893. have a great day! Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. Search. The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. Clment Walter Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. Anonymes I think it was made 1890 but not sure. weapon. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Again, thank you A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. cases. I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. Second Variation serial numbers 707517-851751 (7,000 produced) - 708921. Sorry! Christophe Henri late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph (copy right L.R. LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Search. The Broqua & Scholberg I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. British gunmakers of the 21st century - The Field Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Courard rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. Baltus - Wilmotte Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. "Any maker's name or place of origin? Chaumont M.J. Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. Testing the gun it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. "Cueruy" could be the maker. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. the 20th century. The Baby Browning in . Board Of Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). Collard Henri - Roux Jacques - Galoppin These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Thank you Jerry. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. Collette Lopold 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. Britte Frres Thanks Brandon. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these Proof and Armorers' Marks - The Book of the Pistol Ad Categories: Pre-1840. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. Order this book online and pay it through Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. Bultot Jean Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. I'll test it very cautiously. Bernimolin A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Berleur Michel The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. Belgium - Shotguns Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. Small Arms from 1800 to 1899 - Military Factory How does it open? Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Hard to identify or value firearms - NRA Museums: Rich engraved. << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> that we have found on this subject. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military Comblain - Dorther Hubert "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over What I know so far is: 1924 is a bit late for Damascus barrels. Cap Joseph Baker, David J. Firearm Proof Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? Gun Proof Marks, Stamps and Date Codes - firearmsguide Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. This will be an on going There's no indication of gauge. Bernard Henri Eugne Quite old. or E.C. to share our findings by this means of communication. Any help would be appreciated. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. Shotguns - Belgium Double for sale - Guns International Serial # 58755 S76 This custom made Belgium gun was probably designed for the European market. Antique Shotguns & Belgian Shotguns Side by Side - Collectors Firearms I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Ancion Jacques & Cie Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. Any idea what it all means? We have provided you Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: Belgian Best Shotguns - CHUCKHAWKS.COM The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. OldGuns Newsletter . It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Belgium Leige - The DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Galaxy M33 5G Galaxy Watch5 Galaxy Buds2 Pro Galaxy Book2 Pro 360 insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking.