And Why? Yellow or orange flames represent impurities or a wrong setting. It can be a very dangerous situation depending on the size of the leak We installed a high efficiency furnace several years ago and were told that the exhaust would not harm plants or bushes. Ok so that was a bad idea the only reason i thought of this was back a few years ago i had a grow and i was bringing cool air from the cross pace basement to cool my room and at that time the furnace was also in the basement crosspace. Is It Worth Getting A High Efficiency Furnace? Natural gas underground will kill grasses and plants. You could replace it with a little mini rock garden or something. This site is maintained by Center for Agriculture, Food and the Environment in the College of Natural Sciences. Thanks for sharing! Consult the manual that came with the furnace. However, if the smell is coming from the furnace exhaust pipe, then its completely normal. This is generally true if the burner is clean and has been adjusted to top efficiency. Also, space heaters may consume oxygen and deplete it so that incomplete combustion may result, producing harmful by-products. Sultzbaugh points out that the current attractive pricing of natural gas from domestic sources encourages the use of gas-fired furnaces, but in some cases may give recuperation retrofits a longer payback. WebUnvented heaters can be fired with natural gas, propane or kerosene. Choose shrubs that arent likely to grow or spread to an unmanageable size and avoid plants that produce messy berries that may fall into the air conditioner unit where they may cause problems. Here is the formula for burning natural gas. WebChoose shrubs that arent likely to grow or spread to an unmanageable size and avoid plants that produce messy berries that may fall into the air conditioner unit where they may cause problems. Remember, ethylene is colorless and odorless. VisitAlabama. One of the byproducts of combustion is carbon dioxide which can enhance plant growth. If the system has been installed correctly and is operating right, then these gases will be expelled out of your house through the ventilation system. Thats why the exhaust that leaves the system might be merely warm. Cold air blowing directly on plants often strips it of its moisture. The advantage of a regenerator over a recuperator is that it presents a much larger amount of heat exchange surface to the hot exhaust flow. These fuels are advertised as clean-burning. 2. They usually have to work on the exact same atmospheric pressure to operate correctly. All gas-burning appliances generate combustion gases that can be potentially dangerous if your system is not able to get rid of them properly. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. If the color of your plants leaves is fading or if the leaves are wilting, it could be because the plant is too close to an air conditioning vent. If we take a 30' x 100' double poly greenhouse and maintain inside temperature at 60 F on a 0 F night for a 12 hour period, heating with unvented propane or kerosene heaters would add about 22 gallons of moisture to the air and heating with natural gas would add about 16 gallons. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. I'm buying a new Trane S9V2 furnace. The chances are high that youll find the curved pipes next to the foundation, but, at times, they can be located near the roof. WebIt is a way that we locate leaks when suspected. If you have a heat pump or an electric heater, you can ignore this advice. There are also CO detectors that are available, often from local hardware stores, for just a few dollars. Check for cracks by inspecting for light penetration while the furnace is running. Why do academics stay as adjuncts for years rather than move around? Why? Instead, I just get insulted! WebSolved it by placing a cedar wood panel in front of the vent. There is also an issue with cleaning cooling coils and condensate drains with cleaners to keep them operating properly. Any thoughts? The dosage effect of ethylene on impatiens. You do not have access to www.jlconline.com. At this point, it might be easiest to just accept that you're not going to have a bush there. Why Mitsubishi Mini Split Making Clicking Noise? Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. The bushes are all well established 15+ years old. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. Yes, furnace exhaust does contain carbon monoxide as it is created during the process of burning gas. Also, greenhouse heaters need to be maintained so that the heater itself is running properly and the distribution tube, vent stack, ventilation louvers and fuel line are all functioning correctly. This moisture added to the normal transpiration and evaporation could keep the relative humidity well above 90%. How To Troubleshoot It? So, check your plants location. Floriculture and vegetable crops grown in greenhouses that utilize natural gas or propane fueled heaters can be susceptible to ethylene injury according to MSU Extension. First and foremost, vent all burners to the outside. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. This colorless and odorless gas is harmless when breathed in small amounts (thats what we do all the time), but in enclosed spaces, a high concentration of CO can become extremely dangerous. I have a strong propane smell in furnace exhaust. Tankless Water Heater Exhaust Killing Plants By Andy Johnson | November 26, 2015 0 Comment [post_title] $1184.00 Description: Estrada cited a recent report from the federal electricity commission on plans to build new carbon plants, a tankless water heater, ruining their livelihoods and even killing residents. Although the combustion exhaust itself is clean, the heating process may be producing corrosive or particulate byproducts that could damage or clog a high efficiency heat exchanger such as one with fins. How to use Slater Type Orbitals as a basis functions in matrix method correctly? Sometimes a grower may be caught by a sudden cold snap in the fall and not have the heater in a new greenhouse installed yet. Also, call your furnace maintenance firm to inspect the unit in question. Make the panel a decorative part of your garden design and folks wont even know you have a vent there. By using this website, you agree to our use of cookies. However the plant is on its third plant manager in three years, and no action is taking place in making improvements. 2023 University of Massachusetts Amherst Site Policies, Center for Agriculture, Food,andtheEnvironment, UMassExtension GreenhouseCrops and Floriculture Program, Greenhouse Best Management Practices (BMP) Manual, New England Greenhouse Floriculture Guide, Pesticide Information (Labels, MSDS, WPS), Pesticide Licensing (Certification, Exams, Workshops), Soil and Plant Nutrient Testing and Diagnostics, A Burning Question: Ethylene and Sulfur Dioxide Damage in the Greenhouse. Any cookies that may not be particularly necessary for the website to function and is used specifically to collect user personal data via analytics, ads, other embedded contents are termed as non-necessary cookies. You are inGeorgia. Either that or the J I just put out makes it seem so. It has a heat value of from about 950 1050 Btu/cu ft. Check out the MSU Fruit & Vegetable Crop Management Program! And even if screening is installed, it will corrode into rust flakes within a year or two. The site owner may have set restrictions that prevent you from accessing the site. What is \newluafunction? If you dump it outside, it will kill plants, grass anything that it comes in contact with." If not cut the pipe right up against the fitting and prime and glue a PVC 90 pointing up, use PVC because it is a high efficienty furnace. How long ago were the shrubs and bushes planted? When you understand the conditions your plants need to thrive, you can make better decisions about where you place them and how you care for them. Evergreen shrubs add year-round color and those with an upright growth habit form a screen for an outdoor air conditioning unit. 3 Answers Sorted by: 1 No, it sounds like you have a high efficiency furnace and these will direct vent outside versus using the chimney stack to vent. Levels as low a part per million (ppm) can cause injury on some plants. Russ Chapman from Firebridge notes that larger companies are starting to benchmark their large plants against each other, and against the competition, in terms of sustainability of the plants. One of the problems is that carbon dioxide is most effective when light levels are the highest during the day and the carbon dioxide is mainly produced at night when the heater operates the most. lost in a matter of hours. The 14-point pH scale of acidity runs from 0 at the far acidic end to 14 at the far alkaline, or basic, end, with pH 7 denoting a neutral solution. I know you don't do laundry all the time but it will help a little, better than nothing. Just make sure when you go in there, you may be breathing it to. WebSolved it by placing a cedar wood panel in front of the vent. Remember where the pipes exit the building and go outside. The major pollutants that result from burning kerosene are nitrogen dioxide, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and formaldehyde. If it is yellow or orange it needs adjustment. You should consider contributing to our CFE Media editorial team and getting the recognition you and your company deserve. Check out the MSU Agricultural Operations Program! Bluestem joint fir (Ephedra equisetina) gets its name from its finely textured blue stems. Incomplete combustion reduces the amount of heat that is obtained and increases the amount of pollution. Is furnace exhaust dangerous? Propane has much of the same pollutants as natural gas. It's still not very nice to call me an idiotespecially since I was trying to help the thread and give a nice compliment! The main signs of a carbon monoxide leak include: The most common locations for a carbon monoxide leak within the HVAC system are the exhaust flue and within the heat exchanger. Yellowing orchid leaves. Ethylene in the Greenhouse: Symptoms, Detection & Prevention. You are inAlabama. Let's look a little further at the fuels and the combustion process. Could wind be causing my high efficiency furnace exhaust to back up into the house? All fuel-burning heaters need to be vented with a stack to the outside. These fuels are advertised as clean-burning. Thanks for sharing! No appointments. Need a picture or better description of what the vent looks like. Another scenario is that he may not have tested a heater since last winter and will find that it doesnt work. As the heater operates, oxygen is used and combustion efficiency decreases unless makeup air is available. Hauck offers a range of burner types for industrial furnaces, including its Ecomax direct-fired self-recuperative burner for high temperature furnaces in the North American market. He feels this company could reduce that bill by 25%. You must log in or register to reply here. However, he also points out that for operators with site emission permits written on a lb/MMBtu basis, recuperation allows the use of more furnace capacity, hence increased productivity. Cold air blowing directly on plants often strips it of its moisture. Know the symptoms and how to check greenhouse heaters to avoid the concern. The exhaust pipes should be near to where the furnace is but on the outside. A free air inlet of at least 1 sq in/1000 Btu/hr input is needed. VisitTennessee. If I can revive it or plant new I'll either add a slight angle to the exhaust or wrap the holly in burlap to protect it and see how that works. Once youve established which heat-resistant shrubs are right for you, narrow the choices down by considering the amount of maintenance each will require. Tomato plants are very sensitive to certain pollutants found in the exhaust from fossil fuels. If you love a well-placed houseplant and take pride in your green thumb, heres an AC fact that might alarm you: Your AC can harm (and even kill) your houseplants. Russ Chapman from that firm points out that flue gas recuperators are generally restricted to about 1800 F flue gas temperatures. Insufficient information to make any comment as it is not your old furnace. Two types of heat recovery systems that are commonly used with industrial furnaces are recuperators and regenerators. If your HVAC system does not have a built-in humidifier, then you might experience skin-related problems. With kerosene and propane space heaters (unvented), the potential exists to poison plants with toxic pollutants. Put in a new bush away from the vent & leave a gap for the vent or replace the bush with a chair or loveseat, bird bath, sculpture or fountain looking thing. What is the difference between paper presentation and poster presentation? You can size the air intake for the heating unit with a simple formula: use 50 square inches of intake for each 100,000 BTUs of the heating system. Even though lower humidity levels may not be best for houseplants, its essential for your health and comfort and helps protect your home from mold, sickness, and damage. The type and quantity of impurities depends on where the fuel originated from. This ensures there will be adequate air flow for your air conditioner to operate efficiently. One square inch of vent cross section of outside air for every 2,500 BTUs of heater output is recommended. The company also provides assistance to customers looking to add recuperation to an existing burner system. When planting shrubs near your air conditioners outdoor unit, take several factors into consideration. Firebridge, Inc is a combustion engineering firm headquartered in Burlington, Ontario with wide experience in industrial furnace engineering. These chemicals can damage plants. Click here to start this process. If you suspect a gas leak, try to get your utility company (gas, diesel) to come test your exhaust with an ethylene tester. So be sure the utility company is prepared with proper equipment to help you. Carbon monoxide can lead to worker illness. To contact an expert in your area, visit https://extension.msu.edu/experts, or call 888-MSUE4MI (888-678-3464). How far away from the vent pipe are the shrubs dying? Get up-to-date current news, promotions and industry tips. Make sure the burner flame is clear blue. If you suspect a leaky fuel line, try painting soapy water on the joints and seams and look for bubbling. WebGrasses and perennials that grow more than 6 inches high should also be planted at least 2 to 3 feet away from the base of the unit because ventilation for the unit is also drawn from that area. Why Furnace Blower Motor Is Making Noise When Starting? We have ferns and hostas growing happily in front of it now. WebSolved it by placing a cedar wood panel in front of the vent. A further assistant to the bush gap above is to have the installer approve shrouding to minimize the bush gap & protect the bushes. This can be reduced by faster cycle times or the use of multiple vessels at various stages of cooling. I do not smell it in the house, and can only smell it when the furnace is running and I am outside. Normally furnaces and boilers are operated with about 50% excess air. To avoid ethylene injury, greenhouse heaters need proper ventilation and intake of fresh air from the outside. A conventional natural gas furnace will vent the dangerous combustion gases through a simple vertical exhaust system that is attached to the furnace. Since I preferred to get rid of the chimney entirely (and did so when I re-roofed), we went with the out-the-side exhaust. The flame should burn clear blue. And even if screening is installed, it will corrode into rust flakes within a year or two. I am in the heating and cooling trade and the reason for the plants to die is because the exhaust pipe is probably pointing down which will drie up the soil that they are in. The combustion process for both natural gas and LP gas are very similar. In fact, 1 ppm (part per million) of ethylene or carbon monoxide can cause serious damage. We have ferns and hostas growing happily in front of it now. Plantsexposed to 2 ppm ethylene for one day (B), two days (C), and three days (D). Currently I have 4" steel exhaust pipe coming from my DUKANE MPGA075B3 (75.000 BTUs) (AFUE% = 80%) Never allow gases to remain inside the greenhouse. Two types of heat recovery systems that are commonly used with industrial furnaces are recuperators and regenerators. An unvented heater is one that is designed without a flue connection so that the heat and products of combustion are exhausted into the greenhouse. If you have a flowery plant and notice that theflower buds are falling from the plant or if their leaves are wilting, this may be due to low humidity. A common problem in many newer greenhouses is that they are very tight. This heat-loving shrub produces tiny cream and pink flowers during warm weather, particularly after periods of rain, and grows to just 1 to 3 feet tall with an equal spread. Look for any pattern along the gas pipe route if nearby. WebGrasses and perennials that grow more than 6 inches high should also be planted at least 2 to 3 feet away from the base of the unit because ventilation for the unit is also drawn from that area. I'm concerned that the exhaust could harm the bush and also that the corrosive gas could tarnish the A/C. Sultzbaugh adds, We also need to look at the air-fuel ratio, which will require adjustment., Asked whether existing burner controls can be adapted to the addition of recuperation, Sultzbaugh explains, It depends on the type of control method being used. Using gas chromatography, the air samples can be assessed for ethylene levels and other hydrocarbons such as methane and propane, which is helpful in discovery of leaks in gas supply lines and leaks in the heat exchangers. Read: Why Furnace Blower Motor Is Making Noise When Starting? These chemicals can damage plants. Not sure if your home is as dry as it should be? etc. I'm out of here. Using gas chromatography, the air samples can be assessed for ethylene levels and other hydrocarbons such as methane and propane, which is helpful in discovery of leaks in gas supply lines and leaks in the heat exchangers. Other less likely, but possible sources of ethylene are from combustion engines outside the greenhouse (cars and trucks parked just outside, forklifts, etc.) How much water do we get? Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! The shrubs you choose must also be heat-tolerant to withstand the hot air blown from the unit while its running, but you do have several options for shrubs that can thrive in hot environments. Plants not exposed to ethylene (A). CenterforAgriculture, Food, and theEnvironment, Center for Agriculture, Food and the Environment.