You have to request Bravo clearance.Pilot: I requested Bravo clearance about 15 miles ago.ATC: Nobody cleared you through the Bravo but me.Pilot: Then clear me through.ATC: No!Pilot: Yes!. The other pilot had it right - he's a real a*&^. 552. If you are training to be a pilot, or simply have an interest in the industry, a phrase that you might have come across is pilot deviation. Want the latest investigative and FOIA news? When the controller said he was Researching this pilot's flight with FlightAware and Flightradar24 a much clearer picture emerges. In fact, I encourage that. Dad got home that night after his charter. For everyone making your amazing judgment calls on the Henderson controller: When approach calls tower about a deviation, they may or may not give details. Nobody gives a f*. It would be one thing if he "unintentionally" violated the Class B airspace (how exactly do you do that in this day and age?). Honestly I'm not sure why. Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. Single and Multi engine with Instrument privileges. Commercial Pilot Not only is it against our good nature, but its more work to deviate a pilot (tell on them in lay terms) than to overlook trivial pilot errors after calling them out, as long as it doesnt pose an imminent danger. The compilation is based on data from the agency's Enforcement Information System (EIS). Go get him FAA!!! > Why am I not surprised this happened in Vegas, where theyre apparently allergic to rules. What are the Advantages of Using VOR Systems for Navigation? She was released later on. "Negative, November-one-romeo (N1NR)" would be the appropriately phrased response. This pilot should have been arrested and given a breathalyzer upon landing. See more about our ethics policies here. The more belligerent she became the more concerned the staff was. I love listening to air traffic control audio, either just live, or recordings of interesting interactions. But it's not an excuse for the way he talked to the controller. He's a danger to us all and I don't want to share the sky with him. But I'd recommend against posting it, even if that person turns out to be the idiot in question. Good on you for being anti-US and pro-mask and anti-Vegas, but not in a discussion that has nothing to do with that, smart-guy. Anyone flying under VFR (Visual . For verification purposes, even though the expiration date on the registration certificate may not match the expiration date in the FAA Aircraft . Have you ever said anything nasty to somebody else on the ground or anywhere? Controllers can order pilots to leave airspace for many reasons but the pilot is refusing to follow the order. LAS: "You have to have a Bravo clearance. There is zero excuse for wasting ATC's time in a Class B in this age of airliners everywhere. Best Flight Tracker: Live Tracking Maps, Flight Status, and Airport Delays for airline flights, private/GA flights, and airports. To all the negative comments we did not hear previous communication. .. It would be one thing if he "unintentionally" violated the Class B airspace (how exactly do you do that in this day and age?). - claiming he got auth when he didn't I will answer the question exactly as written: > When ATC has you call. He's going to find it hard for anyone to swallow his excuses. My reliable bet is that sometime between approach switching the aircraft to tower and the time the phone number is read, the pilot gave the tower controller a sob story. It should have gone 1NR, please exit the Bravo. "Isnt the airspace over international airports congested (and dangerous) enough without these general aviation Cesena clowns and the Harrison Fords of the world putting the rest of us at risk? This guy intentionally violated it, then took up ATC's time fighting about it. The second LAS TRACON told him to exit Bravo he should have done the max-bank 180 his aircraft and his passenger(s) and he is comfortable with and exited Bravo. She should have vectored him out after he refused. Sincerely,Annjanette CumminsNational FOIA Coordinator for ANM, AAL & AWP RegionsFOIA Program Management Branch, AFN-400(206) 231-2034[AFN3_SignatureImage_2a]. All I do is shake my head and smile. Gotta love how times have changed Dad was a FBO, Commercial, Instructor, Multi, Aerobatic, crop duster and Instrument. The tower controller likely doesn't care, as he won't be handling it. NOBODY and I mean NOBODY will fly next to a cessna and then hold up a sign (that conveniently they stashed in the cockpit) and write on it with a magic marker. At the end, it seems like there was at least one transmission we didn't hear where this pilot was giving "his side of the story" to Henderson Ground, hence that controller apologizing to him. I'm not at liberty to discuss the matter further, but the safety of passengers and crew are paramount. Publicado el junio 1, 2022 por junio 1, 2022 por "N731NR (again, whining): "I requested Bravo clearance about 15 miles ago. Having been a pilot for over 50 years let me assure you this pilot will receive more than a you shouldnt do that anymore. I know this Controller and she is good at her job. I dont see any defense to his behavior. To break down the exchange, the air traffic controller orders the aircraft to leave the Bravo airspace and pilot whines and refuses because he's already in the airspace. Avoiding Pilot Deviations.pdf (1016.81 KB) Pilot deviations can occur in several different ways. > Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. I am sure you are a "perfect angel". Possible Pilot Deviation Imagine you're the PIC, departing from Runway 27L. ALL pilots know you have to hear the magic words, Cleared into Brovo. As such, he is supposed to go around the airspace. Wnt to the FBO called the ATC sup from the day before had him and the controller involved from the previous flight, made student apologize for his behavior requested they critique student radio skill (he always had a cigar stub in his mouth, refused to remove it). I wish there was a portal where we could interject and tell the FAA to shove one up this guy's six. He let his situational awareness slip, not a good thing. What a name for a company! The Cessna P210N stall speed is 67 knots. "Abraham Lincoln, letter to H.L. I have to say the VASAviation guts who make these videos to an awesome job, its really cool how they combine the audio with the radar detail. However he failed to descend below the inner ring, that ring starts at 4500 ft MSL and goes up to 10000 ft MSL. Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation in this matter. Thank you for your pointing out you're anti-USA and somehow a pilot incursion into Class Bravo airspace has to do with "anti-mask BS". ), Next Generation Air Transportation System (NextGen). Get the stick out of your asses. If this pilot had any sense he would have self reported because his flight recording through the area shows something different than what he thought. Thank you for your very thoughtful insight. I would have made up some BS like instruments or alternator. Sometimes, when major airports are busy, they ban transitions through their airspace, in which case you have to either: - route around, under, or above the relevant airspace As promised, the final portion of the FOIA response concerning N731NR (the guy who busted Las Vegas class B). Must have been a Kennedy. I won't belabor those points. Blatantly ignoring ATC is criminally gross negligence. 3h 18m. Hundreds could have died. It is really important to understand how severe the consequences can be. Instructions on distribution of If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the coordinator(s) found in the letter. Second, yes, people make mistakes, and when someone tells you "Hey you made a mistake here's how to correct it" you do just that. How much you want to bet this pilot is one of the people who refuse to wear a mask? (Identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number). N731NR: "Vegas Approach, Centurion 731NR with you descending through 5700'"LAS: "1NR, Las Vegas Approach, Las Vegas altimeter, 29.88. The few concerns about behavior affected by incipient tumor or hypoxia bring back memories. I'd always much rather be proactive and prevent a pilot deviation. CTO (Control Tower Operator) with AS Degree in ATC. Open the communication! Talk to your psychotherapist. How hard would it be to just clear him through? ATC Audio: Negligent Pilot Argues With Air Traffic Controller, I love listening to air traffic control audio, Not Good: Boom Overture Left Without Engines, Factorydesigns Innovative New Narrow Body Business Class Seat, Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. Pierce, April 6, 1859. Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? How Much Does It Cost To Become A Flight Instructor? When Can I Apply For Student Pilot Certificate? Karen: > Nobody gives a f*. ALL pilots know you have to hear the magic words, Cleared into Brovo. "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not forthemselves, and under a just God, cannot long retain it. The ONLY reason aviation is the safest form of transportation is precisely because everything is taken so seriously. "N731NR (whining): "I'm inside"LAS: "You were not given a clearance through the Bravo. Yeah, this whole sick daughter thing sounds like so much after action excuse making. (at least formally) She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. PILOT DEVIATION REPORT (Continued) INSTRUCTIONS The FAA Form 8020-18 must be completed within 90 days of the notification of a pilot deviation on FAA Form 8020-17, "Preliminary Pilot Deviation Report." The FAA Form 8020-18 must be assigned the same incident report number as the corresponding FAA Form 8020-17. The worst case scenario would not be to lose your certificate. Subject: FOIA 2020-007191WP DUE: 8/6/2020, 411A Highland AvenueSomerville, MA 02144-2516, Subject: Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request 2020-007191WP. airworthiness of an aircraft or the current aircraft configuration. I don't care where people get frustrated. And the incidents you mention are the exact reason for the existence of Bravo and Charlie airspace in the first place. All the information we have at this point shows that he blamed ATC for . I hope that this finds you well and safe, We apologize for the delay in response. We dont delight in getting them in trouble. He did not damage anybody. Clearly not the kind of temperament needed to be a pilot. This guy is a real threat to himself and others. At the point you're referring to he was a FREAKING IDIOT who SHOULD LOSE HIS CERT violating airspace. Plus..help us if weather becomes a problem, as it did yesterday..with vectors around threatening weather. B734. Alan BillingsFOIA Business AnalystFederal Aviation Administration AFN-400(O) 202-267-6352alan.billings@faa.gov, Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request: FAA records for N731NR. Runway 27L, cleared for takeoff." You respond appropriately. From: twitter.com/journo_anon Public Records Requester, Subject: Freedom of Information Act Request: FAA records for N731NR. Pilot deviation is when the actions of the pilot result in the violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation or a North American Aerospace Defense Command Air Defense Identification Zone tolerance. To do this, they will use the Brasher Notification Phraseology. Pilot deviation can leave passengers, crew, and people on the ground in danger. The first is to signal that the pilot is done speaking especially. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. These people keep us safe. The comments on this page have not been provided, reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any advertiser, and it is not an advertiser's responsibility to ensure posts and/or questions are answered. If youre having medical issues or youre feeling unwell youre not supposed to be in command of an aircaft. I think by "Airforce" [sic] you're thinking of all those movies you've seen. It was quite a [emailprotected]## show. He responds that he's been "talking to her the whole time." Without that you cannot enter class B airspace. https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/. This is usually in the following format: (Aircraft identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION, ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number). There are "occupations" of the Seattle State Assembly. > Good job on hitting a new high USA! "Other pilot: "You're an ass$&#!". It seems like the pilot was intent on entering Bravo with or without permission. I know what he did was wrong but I understand his frustration. He SHOULD lose his cert for It causes paperwork (at the very least) on both sides and is also distracting from other important duties. The best way to ensure that you do not get in any trouble is to stay vigilant, follow the rules, and file a report if you know that an error has occurred on your behalf. Whats with the last controller sounding like he is appeasing this dude, instead of trusting the previous controller. But N1NR wants clearance nonetheless and is refusing to leave. Attached is the letter in response to your above mentioned FOIA request. He did not declare a fuel emergency, so go east over Lake Meade, or go west over Red Rocks and stay out of B and get to HND without any issues. - attitude, attitude, attitude, and I'm not talking about the aircraft. ATC should have called the Airforce on him. | Busted Bravo Airspace VASAviation - 519K subscribers Join Subscribe 9.7K 728K views 2 years ago Date: 20/JUN/2020 Your support is really. I live in Las Vegas. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Please provide a copy of all records previously provided under FOIA request: 2020-007074WS . I'm the ATC supervisor in FSD is NxxxxR still owned by (bus name). He flew the plane and student back, Mom advised student (he wanted to finish he's flight) he was done until she discussed it with IP and Dad as owner and Chief Pilot. They have your lives in their hands. If the worst were to happen, people could lose their lives due to pilot deviation, which is not something that anyone wants to have on their conscience. and I think you are either that rude pilot or his wife. Is spoiled B short for "Spoiled Bravo Airspace" or "Spoiled Brat" or "Spoiled B." :). Even if the controller cleared him into Bravo, that's no place to question her. I live in Las Vegas. At this point another pilot chimes in and says youre an [emailprotected]@hole, and the pilot responds youre being that, this is not appropriate language. The video then goes back to the previous communication, which makes it clear that the pilot had never received clearance. Watch how 731NR Decides to fly right into class bravo and not even care about it. How hard would it be to just clear him through? U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Aviation Administration 800 Independence Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20591 1-866-TELL-FAA (1-866-835-5322) The recording indicates a few things going on: sounded like a rough flight, pilot's kid threw up, perhaps he had his hands full. Get the stick out of your asses. Harrison Ford is an accomplished pilot that made the same sort of mistake that many Commercial ATP pilots have made setting up for the wrong runway or taxiway etc. Yes humans make mistakes, and that is why aviation has the strictest protocols outside Oh my gosh! We will also go into the consequences that could occur if you were to get into trouble for this. Got it in there but lake was too short for lake off. Additionally while it is not required to end a conversation with ATC with the tail number, it is customary to do so for many reasons. 3 This pilot is more than likely going to have to do recurrent training probably 10 to 15 hrs before privalages can be restored. Unless there is an emergency, no person should operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction.